While it’s been very cold, for North Carolina, the last few days, 4ºF Tuesday morning and 12ºF this morning, but luckily there’s not been any precipitation in the form of ice or snow associated with it. In the past, I’ve experienced severe cold with crippling ice storms/heavy snows resulting in power outages for days and I’ll be happy if I never experience it again. My sympathies and best wishes to those who face that situation now.
The end and beginning of years are often times of reflection. I’ve read a great deal recently in the perpetual discussion of what art is and how does current digital mass photography/photographers conform to the historical/academic definitions and constrains of art or artist. It strikes me perhaps this is a subject which will never be settled, or completely defined, because of its dynamic rather then static nature. Even in the history of painting there’s been “is this art arguments” about “new” and “minority” styles or techniques — styles/techniques which we now accept as masterful art — and today’s digital mass photography is much more dynamic then painting has ever been. So, it’s not surprising we find it hard to categorize and define its place or role in art. I personally believe art history and tradition will/should play a respected role in the evolution of understanding photography as art but it’ll probably be a “painful” process often to sadly join the subjects of religion and politics — to be avoided in mixed company.
…thoughts as I continue to read and mull over so many different views.
Earl, you are correct that we were very fortunate that the recent cold snap was not also accompanied by ice or snow. In this area that spells virtual paralysis. As it was we had panics over cold temperatures. Not a laughing matter for those impacted, of course, but the overall response to a little cold was rather entertaining.
On the photography part of your post you raise some good points, and it is something we’ve all tried to reconcile at various times. Beyond the question of “is photography art” lies the question of “is MY photography art?” It’s very easy to get sucked into the “is this art?” discussion, but the feeling I keep coming back to is “does it matter?” and “why does it matter?” First and foremost, art is a form of self-expression by the artist, and in that context the definition of what constitutes art is wide open.
Photography is a relatively new medium in terms of art history, and digital photography even more so. Time will tell what constitutes “art” in an historic sense, and while a lot of people feel like they would like to have some amount of influence on history, I think it likely that what becomes significant is well beyond our control or our ability to predict. So in my opinion the best we personally can hope for is some degree of satisfaction in our own accomplishments, without worrying about the historical context.
Like religion and politics, the “art” discussion can be an interesting one provided that the participants come at it with a positive attitude and an open mind. And maybe restricted to like-minded friends! :)
Tom, thanks for your comment.
On photography and art, I do enjoy the many differing views and on occasion participating in “well behaved” conversations on the role/place modern photography has in the art world, or as art itself, but far too often being heard seems to drown out listening — quickly ending conversation.
The sad part is, there’s not much opportunity to learn when “restricted to like-minded friends.” :-)
Couldn’t agree with you more on the “like-minded friends” comment, Earl. I was going down a path several years ago until I took a radical turn from the community I was involved in and it changed my whole way of thinking about my photography. Sometimes I think it’s easier to deny what art is and say that anything can be art. Maybe it is an excuse to not do the hard work or to not face the fact that much of what we make is not art. I for one, would much rather fail while doing the hard work than live under the illusion that I am making something meaningful every time I make a photograph.
Hi Sabrina, Interesting. I have no problem with coming to grips that my photograph is not art…I’ve never been comfortable with that label. For me, photography is a creative expression, a vehicle to explore how I see and think. It may have little value to others.
Might I ask, was there a certain event or point which changed you way of thinking about photography? And this is a hard one, “With your new understanding what would you say art is, in reference to photography? Nothing like putting you on the spot in a comment section, right! :-)
Thanks for you contribution to this conversation and your viewpoint is always valued here!
YES! Photography is just a tool, a tool to explore ideas. Seeing for me is not just visual but more a perspective on life and it involves an opinion or at least thinking about where I stand. Because photography is visual I think many people get stuck there and don’t go beyond the expanded definition of how we see the world.
There wasn’t any one single point or event that changed my way of thinking about photography. It was more evolutionary. I suppose if I could point to one major influence, it would be starting mentoring with Ray. I had questions and he had answers or rather he shared his knowledge with me and that in turn brought new questions. We have been having an ongoing conversation for three years now and it now includes at least ten others.
Looking back, I can say there were several things I can point to in my thinking. When looking at photographs, I became aware of a lot of imitation in my previous circle. That imitation was based mostly on technique and the technical. I was curious how to make images that were more “me” and that’s when I began an ongoing exploration of visual voice, what it means, and specifically what that looks like for me.
i would answer your question “With you new understanding what would you say art is?” by saying this. My understanding is still very minimal. I do believe art is not imitation. It has an opinion and from that perspective, it is self-expression. It tells me what you think and feel about a subject beyond simple beauty or as Ray says “I was here and this is what i saw”. We may have a shared vision in our perspectives on say urban decay or the war on poverty but we can express that photographically in different ways if we are not imitating.
I’ll add that through our IDEA groups, I’ve reached a new understanding of what many of these images we make mean. Sometimes they’re an exploration or just a simple form of communication to replace text. When i think of them in this way rather than as “art”, I have a new measuring tool for understanding their success or failure and I can enjoy them as such.
Sabrina, thanks for taking the time and effort to answer my questions. You’ve left me (and probably others) with food for thought and more then one of your statements concerning your personal evolution resonate strongly with me.
Sometimes I quite envy you “southerners.” It has been rather brutal here this week in Michigan – but hey – its winter, and could be a lot worse.
On the photo/art topic – I think in the end all that matters is how you feel and define it for yourself.
I do have a question though Earl – where did you get that very cool Woodtype symbol. I have a set of Adobe Woodtype ornaments that I use, but that one above is pretty darn cool.
Hi Mark, Yeah, I lived in northern Vermont for a while so I do have appreciation for the mild winters here.
I agree as photographers what should matter is feeling good about your own work and producing work which is personally pleasing and satisfying. It’s not like I lay awake at night worrying about it but still there’s the interesting academic question of where photography in general will land as art.
I assume you referencing the flourish symbol I’m using now as a type of horizontal rule, Mark. I was searching for something I could use as a “subject separator” and I found this non-copyrighted one on the Internet. I’ll email it to you…it’s a transparent png file.
FYI – Here’s how I’m using it — in my Custom CSS file for this WP theme I’ve create the following div type:
div.hr {
background: url(flourish-75_150.png) no-repeat center;
width: 150px;
height: 75px;
float: none;
clear: none;
margin: 10px auto;
}
Then in my post the following short code enacts it:
_div class=”hr”>_/div>
Note: In the code above I had to leave out the beginning “less then” symbols (replaced with _ ) to keep it from displaying the flourish in this comment. Simple and a much more attractive horizontal rule IMO.
I am with ya – I find the topic of revisualization and just being there enjoying the moment fascinating things to discuss. I know I have had many photographs where I worked very hard to compose and arrange things carefully working towards an end goal – and others where I just went click and ended up liking the result with very little conscious thought. It is interesting to think about the thought processes behind both and the reception of them by viewers.
Thanks for the flourish! I am always looking for cool ones. I have a set that are actually fonts, that I used to be able to access quite easily with the Mac’s font book. But Apple really changed the way font book works in one of the recent OS updates, and I had to go to a 3rd party solution.
You raise a good discussion point, earl. I think the revolution in digital photography really does focus the debate on whether photography is Art. For many I think Photography is a disposable asset – it’s been commodified. There is even an App that allows you to post an image that self destructs.
It’s also interesting to look back to when photography ‘arrived’. It wasn’t easily accepted. Lady Eastlake writing in 1857 described photography as ‘Specimens of a new mysterious Art’. She and others, particularly painters, criticized the new media for being ‘a mechanical process for reproducing images and of no artistic value’. But, of course, Photography did became accepted and respected. I think there are enough of us who are serious photographers who will be able to continue to regard Photography as Art, but the increasing use of images within social media and their disposability is in danger of swinging the debate away from it being Art. Jim Nix, a fellow blogger, wrote that ‘we need to rise above the noise’. I think he’s absolutely right. We have to try harder – it’s up to us to fly the flag for Art.
Andy, you make some good points and I do agree with you and Jim Nix about “rising above the noise.”
Thinking of the millions of social media digital photographs I am reminded of the profusely produced “art” — drawings/colorings/paintings — we produced growing up in my childhood days. This was our medium, this was our art, and for those lucky ones our parents would hang examples to display upon the refrigerator. I dare say none of my “art” from those days made it beyond that refrigerator. I/we each have many digital refrigerators today and this blog is one of mine. ~smile~
For clarity, I’m not implying everyone posting digital photos is a child/or childish, or they’re not artistic in their own right, but I do believe we’re in the childhood of the medium of digital photography as art, still exploring it’s scope, merits and proficiencies — at least in the realm of securing a permanent place in mankind’s artistic expression.
Thanks for contributing your thoughts on this subject!
I love the idea of Digital Refrigerators. Our kids stuff was certainly there on the door, and on the noticeboard, and elsewhere. It’s now in a box under a bed somewhere, we haven’t the heart to throw it all away.
Earl,
first a note on your new theme: here in my firefox 26, the image gets enlarged beyond its natural dimensions, and of course this creates a major degradation – it simply looks mushy. Only when I clicked on it I saw it as sharp as it is – and that way I like it very much.
Re. the art discussion: I prefer to leave judgement about art to history – there are too many self appointed artists, critics and teachers out there that it becomes difficult to discern the valuable voices from the cat silver.
What many of us photographers are, is creative. I’d guess however that of the millions of photos taken and posted everyday, some part is only for instant ingestion, self aggrandisation and the like, clearly never inteded as expression of creativity. But the good thing is, that now we have public refrigerators (I like that term! – and just think of the blog ‘more original refrigerator art’) where like-minded people can meet and exchange ideas.
And for me, personally, the motto is: The more I see, the more I learn.
Markus, Thanks for mentioning your experience with this site rendering in Firefox 26. I just downloaded Firefox 26 for OS X and couldn’t replicate the issue you described — I checked numerous pages and they all looked correct. I’ve been running this theme for almost two years now with the only recent changes being in the theme colors and such so I’m at a loss to explain it.
On the art discussion, I’m to the point of thinking perhaps I don’t understand the full scope of what art is.
Now, a dictionary definition of art is “the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.” While this certainly includes many photographers and even some original “refrigerator art” there’s arguments it’s not true art in the purest/deepest sense.
I also follow your motto: “The more I see, the more I learn.” except I may expand it to be “The more I see, the more I learn, the more I learn, the less I realize I know.” :-)
Ok – sheepish me! I had enlarged the rendering of the website as the font is rather small and difficult to read on my laptop, and this enlarged the image too. Sorry for causing confusion – I should have known better and checked that possibility first.
—
And I like your extension of my motto – Socrates would agree! And the only solution is to keep the eyes open and see and create while listening inwards in order to avoid imitation. If we can follow that path, we are probably approaching art.
Glad to know the problem wasn’t something else and perhaps I should/will consider enlarging the font size. :-)
You raise good points Markus. I agree that history is the final judge on what is art and that is why it is important to be aware of art history. What confuses the matter is that the market has become intrinsically involved in what people are interpreting as art (see Robert Hughes’ video on The Curse of Mona Lisa). I agree too that there are too many self-appointed artists, critics and teachers many of whom have no training or knowledge of art or art history–maybe because they feel it is elitist to have this understanding.
If “creative” means to make something, then I think many photographers can consider themselves as creative simply because they make pictures. I don’t believe though that just the act of making something means someone is creative. From what I’ve seen much of what you accurately portray as “instant ingestion, self-aggrandization and the like” IS intended by the maker as “an expression of creativity”. Challenge them a little and you will see the push back. I am glad to see the thinking on this is changing though as some people are grasping what this “avalanche of images” actually means i.e. an evolution in communication rather than art (thank you Ray for that insight).
I do like Earl’s expanded motto and have found it entirely to be the case for me :)
Sabrina, I guess a lot of thos egomaniacs will not stick with photography – next CES next gadget, and the crowd will move on… of course having diluted photography, but I guess not damaged it in its core.
“…an evolution in communication rather than art ”
That’s an interesting perspective!
Oh my. There are a lot of deep thinkers commenting here, so feel free to delete this comment. My own feeling is that if anyone still doesn’t think photography is as valid an art form as anything else then it is not for me to try to change their minds. Even something as fleeting as a musicians performance that few hear can still be art in my opinion. It doesn’t have to last and it doesn’t have to be well appreciated. It just is.